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Faelor
07-26-2010, 03:31 PM
http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=22861&storypage=1



In Part One of our interview, we chat with Scott Hartsman, Creative Director of Trion, to get the scoop on PvP and PvE in Rift, as well as what makes Rift a "social" MMO and why Rift will be so unique as an MMO

Every now and then, when we talk to MMO development companies about some of the new things they're doing, we get that odd little sensation of rightness. That is, sometimes you hear of the ideas that are going into new MMORPGs, and boy does it make you want to play the game! This is definitely true of Rift: Planes of Telara (Rift), an incredibly ambitious (from a graphical and game play perspective) MMORPG currently being developed by Trion World Networks.

For those of you who don't know, Rift originally debuted at E3 2009 under the title "Heroes of Telara," but it has since changed that name to "Rift: Planes of Telara" to better reflect the theme of the game. In Rift, the two factions, the Guardians and the Defiant, are fighting a fierce war against invading planes of existence, known as "Rifts," which have suddenly begun to appear on Telara, leaking all sorts of baddies onto the planet. In addition to this, the Guardians and the Defiant are also fighting a particularly fierce civil war - with the Guardians staying loyal to their silent Gods, while the Defiant seek to defend Telara by their own strength alone. As an MMORPG, Rift has some incredibly ambitious plans, so whether you're interested in their stunning next-gen graphics, or their innovative "soul" class system, or even their unique take on the MMORPG genre as a whole, this is definitely one game you should be keeping an eye on.
We decided to catch up with Scott Hartsman, Creative Director of Trion, to get every little bit of new info on Rift that we could possibly get! In Part One, we talk with Scott about PvP in Rift, what really makes Rift a "social MMO," and we get a fresh perspective on the MMO genre as a whole. Tomorrow, in Part Two, we talk about Rift's innovative 'soul' system and how players will grow into heroes in Rift: Planes of Telara.
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ZAM: Before we begin, while most of our readers are aware of what Rift: Planes of Telara is, there's a good chance that not all of them are really sure what, exactly, sets this MMO apart from its competitors. What three elements do you think really "define" Rift as being unique?

Scott Hartsman: If I had to pick three elements, the first would be the fact that we're trying to make sure that there are only interesting things going in the world; activities that stand well beyond what you would see as static content in other games. It's not to say that we don't have stuff that you would expect to do in MMOs, but we also have a lot more dynamic content, like invasions and the game play elements that revolve around fighting back the invading planes of existence (rifts). What's really cool is how changes begin to occur on the planet as a rift appears; these rifts will, literally, affect the area in which they appear, and players will instantly be able to recognize when a dynamically spawning rift has appeared nearby. As well, we're planning to really develop on the theme of Rift: Planes of Telara, which is the idea of players at war with these planes of existence while also being at war with each other.

To be honest, we want to do a thousand more things with this IP than we can do at launch, and I think that's a great thing. The core of the IP is the interaction of the planes with Telara. The moment you start speaking of extra-planar existences and exploring those, you end up with a whole lot of stuff.

Finally, we're also very proud of how high-res Rift is. Our team has an incredible amount of experience in the MMORPG world, so we're really leveling up the graphics that people have come to expect from MMOs. Most MMOs on PCs have come out about half a generation (graphically speaking) behind the consoles, and we want to change that.
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ZAM: Here at ZAM.com, some of us are huge fans of PvP and the freshness it can bring to an MMORPG. Now, we already know that Rift will have copious amounts of PvP, but how will it all work out? Where do your focuses lie?

Scott Hartsman: Well, we really don't want this experience to be some kind of foreign thing that nobody can wrap their head around. We want PvP in Rift to be familiar, but to have that unique twist that sets us apart. We do, however, have our PvP and our PvE servers - we're making sure that we're not forcing PvP on anybody if they don't want to do it.

But it's not to say that players who avoid PvP will miss out on all the game, either, as we have an incredibly well developed PvE game that you can play the entire way through. On the other hand, on our PvP servers we also have parts of the world that are highly contested, and this ties into the concept of invasions and rifts. Finally, we'll have some PvP instances in Rift, so that both PvE and PvP players can come into a slightly more controlled setting.

ZAM: You mention invasions and the potential for Rifts to dynamically grow stronger if players don't react accordingly. While this sounds really ambitious, apathy in the player base can often debilitate ideas like this. That is, what happens if players just can't be bothered to defend their planet or their territories? Will the game suffer as result?

Scott Hartsman: Well, when you create a game where players are, essentially, janitors, you can certainly end up with a lot of apathy. We really don't want to make players run around saving the world and, if they don't, it all just goes to hell. That's what I mean by making players become janitors. Instead, we want players to go around and take part in defending parts of the world for tons of incentives and rewards, rather than the potential for suffering. Making a game like Rift work is really more about the reward structure; make it worth their time and they'll want to come because they want to, not because they have to.
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ZAM: On that note, then, what happens if it all swings one way? In MMOs where faction versus faction play is heavily emphasized (World of Warcraft, Warhammer Online, Aion), one side often gets a huge advantage in numbers, and this can often translate to a server dominance where one side has, literally, taken over all of the zones, resulting in a severely inhibited game for the losing faction. How can you deal with this?

Scott Hartsman: It's more a matter of defining what "taking over a zone" really means. Does it mean the other side can't do anything? No, of course not. Players should think of it as being about "who has conquered the invaders in a given area and has gotten the reward for doing so." It's not who has put up a fence. Of course, there will be lots of direct conflict and all of that, but by the same token, that kind of activity can take place in the overland (consensual PvP) or on the warfront (PvP instances). At the end of the day, everyone wants to get some game play value out of the game they're playing.

ZAM: In a different vein, you've often mentioned that you wanted Rift to be a true "social" MMO. What do you mean by this, and how do you intend to do this?

Scott Hartsman: Think of other MMORPGs you've played in the past. You wander around, you level up, you mind your own business and then, suddenly, you see a cool thing. Let's say, for example, that this "cool thing" is a monster, and it drops something that you want. I would imagine that you would want that "cool thing" to be all yours; as in, if you see another person coming along, you would tell them to leave you alone with your discovery.

What we want to do is change that mindset so that you want to see more people show up, and we've done this by simply making it so that the more people that show up… the better off you are! For example, take the most common event that we've demonstrated thus far, the Rifts themselves. If you see a Rift open, you might say, "I'm going to go kick that invasion's ass," and then you'll decide to work your way through by yourself. You'll still get a good reward for it, but if more people show up to fight, all of you will get better loot because you're all doing it together. The fact is, more people equal more rewards and higher quality results. That's really the philosophy that we're trying to bring to a lot of things. We're trying to get away from that "it's mine, so you can't have it" mindset.

In the end, we want our MMO to be a social experience and we've realized that it's not that people don't want to be social, it's just because they don't want to be inconvenienced.
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ZAM: How do you plan to deal with "griefing" (intentionally ruining or preventing others from enjoying the game) in Rift? For example, if a few players decide that they want to be the only ones at a Rift, and if some new guy comes wandering along to participate, the group just decides that they won't participate any more until the new player leaves.

Scott Hartsman: Well, six guys being difficult isn't really a "big deal," because there are thousands more that can help. These rifts are supposed to be massive, and we have events of all sizes. At the end of the day, it comes down to who chooses to go there, rather than hard limiting the numbers that can be there. The idea we have here is that once you have a full server population, chances are, you'll get those large numbers and you'll definitely have more people helping than not.

ZAM: What other social features do you have planned for Rift? What about housing?

Scott Hartsman: We have a pretty robust Guild system in the works. One thing we haven't talked much about is people getting together to build their guild up and build a structure (in the metaphorical sense) that provides you and all of your friends benefits. Once again, we've come back to that idea of everybody contributing to the effort of benefiting themselves and their friends.

We don't want to go with geographical housing, but there needs to be things that people can build on and that they can be proud to build. If we add in tangible benefits as well, then that's just another reason to do so.
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ZAM: What about the economy as a social feature? While most games, these days, just use crafting as another form of self-sufficient player progression (ie, World of Warcraft), there have been other MMOs, like Final Fantasy XI, that have employed crafting as a whole new sphere of player interaction. In this way, because it usually took an incredible amount of time, money and effort to become a master of your craft, social communities could spring up around the pursuit of mastering these crafts. As well, players would also need to seek out other crafters in order to lock down suppliers, or to get items crafted that the player wouldn't be able to make themselves. Will Rift pursue crafting in this same way?

Scott Hartsman: I would say that our game supports both kinds of crafting. We let you choose between those crafting and gathering professions and, on your character, we let you pick three of the total of all of them. You can definitely choose to make yourself an uber-specialist in one thing and to become self-sufficient in that one thing, but it's obvious that the more you branch out, the more you'll have to rely on other people.

You see, with the way MMO gaming has evolved, we are, once again, dealing with the concept of convenient socializing and inconvenient socializing. Players just like to deal with the auction house (rather than contacting specialized crafting suppliers) because it's so convenient.

As a final point, if you go too far in the direction of ultra-difficult crafting masteries, you end up isolating more people than you're appealing to. Lots of people make the assumption that an MMORPG developed by a new company will be grindy, but we are very much not doing that. We are very sensitive to the idea that there needs to be something interesting to do. A large amount of time spent on something does not always equate to a certain level of difficulty; a large amount of time spent just means a large amount of time spent.


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And that covers the first half of our phone interview with Scott Hartsman! Be sure to check in tomorrow, as we'll be covering the real meat and potatoes of Rift: the 'soul' class system and player growth!

Raspbuten
07-27-2010, 07:32 AM
Even when they say "we won't mess up like Warhammer," it sounds exactly like Warhammer.

Faelor
07-27-2010, 04:40 PM
Part two. http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=22866



In Part Two of our interview with Scott Hartsman, Creative Director of Trion Worlds, we talk about character growth, Rift's innovative "soul" system and the economics of an MMORPG.

Hi and welcome back to ZAM's interview with Scott Hartsman about Rift: Planes of Telara! In Part Two, we talked about Rift's unique class system, as well as how players will grow in Rift (even in endgame!), as well as the economy of Rift and just how far your money, both in-game and out, can get you!
You can read part one over here (http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=22861) before you get on to reading part two!
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ZAM: In other articles and interviews, as well as on the official Rift website, you talk about 'souls' and how they are, essentially, the core of player growth. To give a quick explanation to our readers, a player begins the game with one 'soul,' and he or she can then invest ability points into that soul to make it grow stronger (think of a talent tree). As well, the more points you put into the soul, the more abilities you automatically unlock from that soul. At later levels, players will be able to pick up an additional two souls from any class archetype, and they can either choose to invest in those souls, or they can simply focus on one soul to become ultra-specialized. Rift players will be able to swap their souls and ability points around so that they can find out what combination is best for them.

Will players have access to all souls at level one?

Scott Hartsman: One of my most favorite things in the world is when fiction combines with game play in that perfect blend. Fictionally speaking, you are a brand new soul on Telara that has been 'reincarnated' to fight. So, as you become more attuned to the world, you will obviously expand your powers. These 'souls' you take on are really the other souls that didn't quite make that trip back that you did. We don't want it to become so complicated that players get overwhelmed.

ZAM: You have a number of souls already listed on your website (the Reaver, the Blade Dancer, the Warlock, etc), but you've already noted, in another interview, that there may be even more than the 16 soul slots that are listed as "coming soon" on the website. Are there plans to create a plethora of souls later on to give players the chance to specialize or customize themselves even further?

Scott Hartsman: Oh absolutely. We plan on creating tons of souls, and not just for combat, either. We want to have 'social souls' that can maybe transform you into something, or create ultra-specialized souls, or even ultra-humorous souls. Hypothetically speaking, we could make the soul of a jester, and then give it just one ability! It's great that we can continue to introduce these new souls to give players the opportunity to expand and something new to look forward to.
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ZAM: Were there any inspirations for this impressive class design?

Scott Hartsman: We are incredibly proud of it, and it's not something we've heard of in the industry. We can't even really credit one person with the idea; the idea just sort of floated up in meetings, and we started to run with it.

ZAM: One interesting thing I see here is that if you can swap out all three of your souls, that means you can, literally, change your entire character archetype with a single respec. Are there plans to make players "stick" with a certain soul that they begin as, or did you want to give the opportunity for everyone to try everything?

Scott Hartsman: Currently speaking, we have it set so that you can swap out all three souls, but we are definitely still thinking about it. We might make players stick with their original soul, and then branch out via their two additional souls, but we'll see.
[Clarification: Characters will be able to swap their souls around under a single 'Calling,' of which there are four: Warrior, Rogue, Cleric and Mage. The team is debating over whether a player will need to stick with a specific 'calling' for the rest of his or her life, or whether he or she can switch their calling (and thus, their character archetype) while still experimenting with the souls under a specific calling. Sorry for the confusion!]


ZAM: What about player growth when it comes to endgame? Will players be focused on growing via equipment once they hit that maximum level, or will there be other opportunities for a player to grow in power, and not just by getting a new sword?

Scott Hartsman: We really wanted to focus on collecting things; be it notoriety, gear, quests, faction standing or even souls. You see, once you get a brand new soul and you try it out, you'll want to begin the process of mastering your soul. We're talking about an entirely different way of playing, and that takes time to practice. We want players to take the time to practice, or else they're going to get stomped. That's where a lot of our endgame progression will come from, although getting equipment is always fun.

Slotting a new soul at a high level doesn't mean you're good at it - it just means that you can do it. I think we're actually doing harm to our players if we say, "OK, you're done leveling, but now we have… even more grind!"
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ZAM: This level of customization and creativity reminds me of those old school MMORPGs, like Ragnarok Online, where players could distribute their stat points and skill points in any way they wanted, and so huge communities were created where players could discuss their "builds" and their styles.

Scott Hartsman: We intentionally created a system that is all about creativity and having fun. Being able to be one class and then being able to cherry pick a couple other things from other classes is really freakin' powerful! It's powerful and it's an immediate fun moment.

I don't know about you, but I play these games to have lots and lots of fun moments! I imagine most of us who play class-based MMORPGs always get those moments where you see that other class and you say, "If I just had that ONE ability…" And we want to give players that feeling. We want players to be discovering and experimenting with things, and we want them to be thinking, "This is just too strong!"

ZAM: For a final line of thought here, what about making money in Rift? Some MMORPGs prefer to develop their communities by making money scarce, thereby forcing players to find creative ways to pay their bills. What about Rift?

Scott Hartsman: Everybody that's ever made an MMO has that "easy to learn, hard to master" concept. Unfortunately, that "hard to master" mentality ends up being "oh, you have to grind a lot." But at the end of the day, we're all about fun and advancing yourself further.

With all of that said, we don't want money to be scarce and to have our players completely destitute. Money is a tool. There should be things you can do with this tool, and there should be choices you can make with this tool. Do you get this, or something else? Do you spend it on this awesome mount, or that cheaper mount?

We definitely, however, want to get away from that "Oh God, I need to buy gold to keep up" mentality. The one who masters his class and becomes good at what he or she does will definitely prosper. Money doesn't buy power!
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ZAM: What about paying for the game itself? You've noted that you will be going subscription based because you want Rift: Planes of Telara to be taken seriously as a triple-A MMORPG, and so the subscription-based model is the only way you can do it. Recently, Turbine has been making some significant headway in trying to change the stigma surrounding "free-to-play" subscription models. Can you ever see Rift looking down those paths?

Scott Hartsman: I sincerely hope that DDO and LOTRO succeed in their free-to-play business models, and there is no doubt that they're doing well. We've just started, however, and based on where our business is going, we believe there is a large audience out there that just wants to be able to say, "Hey, I paid my subscription, and now I want all the stuff that comes with my subscription."

It's basically the assurance that you will get everything and you don't have to worry about anything. I think that core audiences in the West are big fans of simply paying that monthly subscription and getting everything, and so I think we're going to stick with that.

ZAM: Whew! That was a lot of questions and a lot of talking! Thanks for speaking to us about Rift: Planes of Telara - we can't even begin to say just how giddy with anticipation we are for this MMO! Do you have any parting words for your loyal followers?

Scott Hartsman: This is the best time of the game for me! This is where the rubber meets the road, where you find out which places you were right and which places you were horribly, horribly wrong. Outside of that, I'm looking forward to getting a lot of players into the game!

ZAM: Thanks again!

Scott Hartsman: Thank you.


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Man, we just can't wait to get our hands on that class system to make some crazy soul combinations... Can you imagine!? Because we just totally did!

Either way, we'll be sure to update you on more Rift news as time goes on, and if you had any other questions, let us know and we'll try to get them into our next Q&A session with Scott and the team! Keep up the good work Trion!

Faelor
07-27-2010, 04:43 PM
Even when they say "we won't mess up like Warhammer," it sounds exactly like Warhammer.
What are you talking about specifically, the Rift system and how it plays like Public Quests? If so, I disagree. Though I never played Warhammer as much as some of you guys. In Rift you're getting some sort of reward no matter your contribution, and you won't lose out on "rolls". You can fail a "stage" and continue, and apparently the Rifts can scale well to how many players are actually there, and aren't static. The problem I had in the short time I played Warhammer was you needed a certain amount of people to beat a PQ, and if they weren't around you couldn't possibly do it. It seems in Rift you at least have a chance of progressing and getting rewarded (at the end of each stage) as you go through it.

Tanglewist
07-27-2010, 11:50 PM
There pq system for leveling sounds fine. The parts I'm more concerned about is how many people the server can hold in one spot before everyone lags to hell and back (fort sieges in warhammer and aions). Are there any raid mobs? Raid objectives? Is there stuff we can do as a guild or is this small groups only protending to be a mmorpg? While I've had some awsome static groups in the past there has to be more to the game than random rifts and statics. Looking forward to more information on this game.

KCXIV
07-28-2010, 12:05 AM
a game of this kind of budget has to have raids. If it doesnt, then its a no for me, but i am pretty sure there are considering they were talking in one of the podcasts about how big the raids were going to be, then they started talking about the old 72 man eq raids.

Goremarr
07-28-2010, 01:09 AM
Before you get too excited about 72-man raids, they won't be happening in Rift. What I've gleaned from interviews so far has developers saying that it will be 20-man raids (4 groups).

KCXIV
07-28-2010, 03:51 AM
Before you get too excited about 72-man raids, they won't be happening in Rift. What I've gleaned from interviews so far has developers saying that it will be 20-man raids (4 groups).

i am so not excited to ever raidwith 72 players again, 40 of them 72 knew what the fuck they were doing and the rest you were just hoping they were paying attention.

i am ok with 24-30 tops. Hell in VG 18 was fun.

Raspbuten
07-28-2010, 07:59 AM
What are you talking about specifically, the Rift system and how it plays like Public Quests? If so, I disagree. Though I never played Warhammer as much as some of you guys. In Rift you're getting some sort of reward no matter your contribution, and you won't lose out on "rolls". You can fail a "stage" and continue, and apparently the Rifts can scale well to how many players are actually there, and aren't static. The problem I had in the short time I played Warhammer was you needed a certain amount of people to beat a PQ, and if they weren't around you couldn't possibly do it. It seems in Rift you at least have a chance of progressing and getting rewarded (at the end of each stage) as you go through it.

Public Quests were great in concept and terrible in implementation. Rift might take the same thing and implement it better, but the fact remains (and he said it right in the interview) people will be chasing gear. Which means all the things it used to mean in EQ - Long ass camps, waiting in line to get at the gear because uber guild is camping a spawn, people going AFK While 1 group of people wins each stage, and everyone benefits.

And then the gear runs out. You get everything there is to get, and now you have no content. Granted there will be raids, but building a PvE and a PvP game usually means that one side will fail. (e.g. Vanguard) or both (e.g. AoC).

While they say they want to disguise the grinding (which most MMO gamers are used to and dont mind by now, that's why they still play MMOs) if the treadmill moves to quickly, players become bored, and ends in apathy. If it's too slow (e.g. EVE) people become bored and it ends in apathy.

And Tangle brought up the big picture - Server limitations, graphical limitations, and lag. Same as WAR.

It probably sounds like i'm being super negative, but really it's important to be super critical. To give you an idea of what might be cool, is to actually allow players to affect the world. Sure a rift will open up and the "effect" will spread. Meaning that the grass shrivels and turns black. A cool effect no doubt. However, what happanes if no one does anything? Right in the interview he says they want players chasing rifts for the rewards...it's going to get boring. Now if players could destroy a rift, and build some sort of outpost that would prevent the rift from coming back, or take control of a rift where the player controls the events that occur in the rift, now that would be fun.

<--- Still waiting for true next-gen games.

Faelor
07-28-2010, 03:31 PM
You definitely have some valid points, though my faith is just bit cranked when I see Hartsman and co creating the game. Though I'm trying to not get sucked into fanboy'ism like I did with vanguard. Those are very valid issues you have, and I hope Trion stays true when they say they've tackled most of them. Specifically the server issue, since they built a great back-end and that's how they got their $100 million in investments. Though, we've seen every MMO tout something around and not deliver, so it's nothing new in that aspect.

In response to the raid size, I enjoy when a force of say 25-40 can take something down (large WoW raids, smaller EQ raids) but damn, some of my best memories in the last half decade have been with a small raid. Typically two groups (10-12) taking down some crazy content. There is more weight on everyone's shoulders, which makes that boss kill much more exciting. Though typically you rely on certain classes and specs because you're running with two groups, but damn it's fun. At least in WoW, they're making it so multi-specs can bring the same buffs and debuffs so you're not hung on having the same say... 8 out of 10 classes with an interchangeable 2.

Madruk
07-28-2010, 10:29 PM
PQ's are pretty much doomed to fail in the long run simply because after awhile people will stop doing them once they have what they want. Saw this in Warhammer even when people lost rolls. If you get something every time no matter what it'll go by even faster. If that's their main draw the game is in trouble. This is from a casual standpoint of 1-2 groups doing it, I don't know how their raid rifts will work. Probably the only way to draw people in is have ultra rare drops that make you keep coming to them. MMO's are all about repetition.

I'm more interested in their endgame content like raids and dungeons at this point.

Raspbuten
07-29-2010, 07:47 AM
Madruk, Spot On.

The problem with current MMOs is repetition. It doesn't have to be that way. Take PvP takeovers in Darkfall. You could be raided any time day or night and have your fortress burned to the ground. Log in and oops, you're now in the enemies base.

The problem there is that it's usually a zerg fest...but that actually encourages people to expand the player base. I might check out Darkfall again over the winter now that they are rumored to be using DX10.

Dynamic content in an MMO isn't as tough as people think. I'm hoping one of these days a game will surprise me.