Gfx VS Game Play

[Onii]

Wanted to see what the general consensus was.

[Faelor]

I'm playing EverQuest because of the gameplay, not the graphics :)

[Abigor]

I'm playing EverQuest because of the gameplay, not the graphics :)

But do you play it because you are familiar with it, and have invested alot of your personal time into it?

Would you actually pick this game up off of the shelf, pay for it, and pay an ongoing subscription rate if you never played it before? Or would you walk past it and not give it a second thought to look for something better and more graphically advanced?

[Faelor]

But do you play it because you are familiar with it, and have invested alot of your personal time into it?

Would you actually pick this game up off of the shelf, pay for it, and pay an ongoing subscription rate if you never played it before? Or would you walk past it and not give it a second thought to look for something better and more graphically advanced?It was the same case when I picked up the game in 99. EverQuest looked decent, but it wasn't (and still isn't) the best looking game out there. I picked it up because of what I read about it, my interest in RPGs, online games, fantasy, etc.

Perhaps the "NES" example isn't very valid in 2007? Even simple games look better than the NES, if anything it should be compared to SNES since many 2D games still use graphics that can be compared to that era/system.

[Ferrum]

But do you play it because you are familiar with it, and have invested alot of your personal time into it?

Would you actually pick this game up off of the shelf, pay for it, and pay an ongoing subscription rate if you never played it before? Or would you walk past it and not give it a second thought to look for something better and more graphically advanced?

That's a good question.

I started to think about it, and the only game that comes to mind with superior graphics would be VG. The Korean Style MMOs are all anime, and I don't like that look. Asheron's Call is as bad as EQ. WoW is as bad as EQ.

Interestingly, MMOs don't ever really try to look that good, except VG.:suspicious:

I don't think I'd play one with NES graphics though, honestly.

So with the exception of the NES..that just leaves me gameplay. I guess that's why I've always gone back to EQ over the years. It is the best game out there for people that want a challenge.

That's even beyond my established character, I've rerolled on new servers multiple times. I actually PREFER a new server. No gear, no power leveling, just hard core check.

Brad, why have you abandoned us! I clicked the wrong option, I'd say Probably now that I think about it.

[Tronco]

Am I the only on that thought VG looked almost identical to EQ2 on decent settings? EQ2's graphics were far from crappy, and VG was far from mind-blowing really. But that's just me... maybe the graphic would have looked better to me if I didn't spend half the game under the world.

[Ferrum]

Thanks Tronco I forgot about EQ2.

So we have EQ2+VG

[Tronco]

Also I know little of FFXI, Guild Wars, and you neglected to mention DDO (which I think is lacking in content in a BIG BIG way, and the grpahics though semi-realistic are stiff as hell) and City of Heros/Villains (Graphically WoW equivilant, the most content in the entire game is the character generator).

[Ferrum]

As someone who LOVES DDO, I don't really consider it an MMO, I guess that by definition I'm wrong, but eh.

FFXI is one of the anime ones, bleh, But eye of the beholder right.

Yeah I also forgot SWG, I just woke up when I posted. Leave me alone or I'll make Goremarr go emo on you.

[Razorwind]

It was the same case when I picked up the game in 99. EverQuest looked decent, but it wasn't (and still isn't) the best looking game out there. I picked it up because of what I read about it, my interest in RPGs, online games, fantasy, etc.

Perhaps the "NES" example isn't very valid in 2007? Even simple games look better than the NES, if anything it should be compared to SNES since many 2D games still use graphics that can be compared to that era/system.


In 99' EQ was one of the best looking games to come out. If you can think of another game that was released the same year that looked better please post a screen shot. I remember in 99 when I logged into EQ for the beta test I was personally blown away by the graphics, but if a MMO launched today with EQ quality graphics I would not buy it.

The main problem with today's MMO market is releasing an unfinished product. The excuse of "an MMO by nature is never complete" is a load of shit. If your game is well planned out there should be no need for sweeping class changes.

You know this rant could go on for days, but I am going to stop myself here.

Back to the original point of the post....

Vanguard was all graphics and no game play....it failed

EQ has a lot of gameplay, but dated graphics.....it has a good following, but primarily because of it long history. I seriously doubt many brand new, never played an mmo before, people are subscribing to EQ.

SWG and EQ2 had a good balance of graphics and gameplay, but changed the entire game play about a year after launch.

It would be interesting to discuss what people define as good gameplay. I am sure most of HA would say lots of endgame raid encounters.

Me personally, I could care less about the 1-69 (or what levels exist before max). Its all about the big challenges. For me the only real point of levels 1-69 is to learn my way around the world, so I don't get lost moving from raid target to raid target :D

[Tronco]

On the other hand there ARE still people playing Gemstone and other text based MMOs... completely sans-graphics. So.....it happens.....I guess.

[Razorwind]

On the other hand there ARE still people playing Gemstone and other text based MMOs... completely sans-graphics. So.....it happens.....I guess.

Well as we all know from the WOW auction house...people will buy all kinds of junk. I guess you just need to define how many buyers or subscribers is a success. If you are happy with a few hundred or thousand, or do your want to be the WOW killer

[Khristah]

well the WoW killer...probably wont ever happen...the game is too good, the graphics are good if you look at them right, the gameplay is outstanding, the engine is the best engine ever, the fights are fun, the quests are good, its packed full of humor, and i dig that...i mean what more could you ask for? Blizzard to me, is not one to release crap, when WoW came out, it wasnt broken...wow what a surprise! ..eq2 was and still is broken...eq is still broken...vanguard is broken...and wait...ALL of those are SONY games...

it seems as if its not about the game, engine, graphics etc at all...its the producers, the publishers and the devs...i for one am NEVER buying sony anything...ever...

and so as weve all heard...the grass is always greener...but is it really?

[Tronco]

Random time...
http://www.liftmeup.org/images/FINN-Grass%20is%20greener-06.JPG

[Khristah]

LOL where do you find this crap...well anyway...you all thought vanguard was greener...even though I told everyone that it was arid and dry and devoid of all life ...you still made the trek from norrath to ....wherever the hell that pile is...and set forth on your quest for dissappointment...

so think about that...and the fact that history repeats itself...

now look at AoC...

[Tronco]

I gotta shoot you down here Christa (don't kill me). I hear this day in and day out from the guy's I work with. blah blah, you said VG would be great and it sucked. So what now.....never try a new game? I don't think it's remotely fair to hold AoC responsible for the sins of VG. Yes we all got burned, and we never get tired of being told by everyone that "We told ya so."

[Fraktal]

now look at AoC...

Hmmm?

I don't see any one game killing WoW, but between WAR, AoC and <insert any next non-Sony game here> coming out the population will start to decline.

By the looks of it, AoC is 90% end-game. Seems Funcom knows their shit, lets see if they can execute it.

[Torvintus]

when WoW came out, it wasnt broken...wow what a surprise! .

Erm, I remember buying WoW on release day and it was broken as fuck. Servers were crashing, character queqes, Servers crashing left and right. WoW was broken as fuck when it release, but it recovered quickly and started working on patch fixes within a few days and everything was much more stable within the month


...eq is still broken

How was EQ broken and how is it still broken?


vanguard is broken...and wait...ALL of those are SONY games...

Vanguard is a Sigil product up until it was actually bought out when the whole McQuaid is a demon from hell thing broke out.

[Fraktal]

Vanguard is a Sigil product up until it was actually bought out when the whole McQuaid is a demon from hell thing broke out.

I have to agree with Christa, Sony is garbage...

[Razorwind]

The mass exodus from EQ2 had nothing to do with Vanguard. It had more to do with Sony's boring end game content.

Sony's End Game Content...

Go Farm Eye's and get junk loot for a week
Enter God King Chamber to get a single master chest

rinse and repeat...

Oh lets not mention making everything you raided for in the previous tier absolutely worthless because the craft items of the next tier are better.

Also, lets do a complete revamp of all classes, and make sure that all but a few classes have a clearly defined role in a raid.

HA did not leave EQ2 for Vanguard. HA left EQ2 because of developer choices, and hoped that Vanguard would be the Jesus Juice.

It wasn't....so now I place my hopes on AoC.

AoC is not the last hope. In the words of Master Yoda, "There... is... another... War...Hammer" ~dies~

P.S Onii I believe this thread has been officially hijacked

[Khristah]

vanguard had...HAD...the promise of a good game...until sony got its vile claws on it...in it...tainting everything...

i dont think any game on release day is ready for the slam on thier servers...so ok i see them crashing the first day because of load....but the content wasnt broken was it?

eq is still broken...the last time i logged in fell through the world...hmm 50 years or whatever lol and you still cant fix that shit? the character animations and faces are just hideous...the interface and spells ...nvm i dont wanna get started lol

and eq2 is broken because they apparently think it will be cool for thier players to get used to a class, then COMPLETELY change it to something totally different within a year...and then next year..for shits and giggles..they do it again.../shrug...whats NOT broken about that

qeynos is overpowered...assassins always got the shitty end...pvp is non exsistant because of the suckled "good guys"

its not that way in just eq2 though...its like that in wow too...im just saying..

and i have no problem trying a new game...ive played many MANY games...i was going to play vanguard..but i couldnt get out of the gnome city for 3 days so i flipped sony ye olde birde and logged out forever...ask alk...i was talking to him at the time LOL

ill try anything once..and stick with it if i love it..but all im saying is i love wow...so why try something else? because it might be better? ...and its true! it might be better...and i still might take that chance...but until i see something really mind blowing..ground breaking...and not hideous and broken...im not leaving wow for "greener pastures"

Tronco, lol youre entitled to your own thoughts...im not going to kill you and im not trying to rub it in or say i told you so or i would have said I TOLD YOU SO!!! =)
i was making an example and what a good one that is... its not your fault..sony and "sigil" let you guys down...and piss on them for that!!!

anyway...like i said ill try anything...that looks appealing to me...whether it be a new style of fighting...a new overall feel...an implied pet system...but im me...and you guys are you...and what appeals to all of us is different...i can accept that...in fact i embrace that..i just like to give people something to think about..maybe something to chew on while theyre standing in the herd at wal-mart...i also love playing devils advocate..lol so ill argue the other side even if its not what i belive or feel..just to get people thinking...thinking is sexy...dig it?

PS lol razor...thats what he gets for blowing up the pic thread =)

[Fraktal]

Freeport was OP Christa.

You can do a raid with only evil classes, but you cannot do a raid with only good classes.

Brigands = the win

[Khristah]

thats a load of hooey...there were MANY qeynos guilds who raided nightly T7 content..and were blasting it...on pvp server...=p

[Tronco]

Could be worse... last time I wanted to completely derail a thread I posted nigh-pornographic animated gifs in mass.

[Abigor]

vanguard had...HAD...the promise of a good game...until sony got its vile claws on it...in it...tainting everything...




Actually it was Sigil who brought Vanguard it's problems. Brad McQuaid had great ideas but couldnt perform the job of CEO. Many good people at Sigil did what they could with what they had. Unfortunately there were some bad decisions made there which cost Vanguard it's credibility. Sony coming in basically saved the game. I think many who know the history of Vanguard will acknowledge that SOE coming in, saved it.

[Khristah]

sony coming is rushed it..and ultimatly destroyed it

[Fraktal]

thats a load of hooey...there were MANY qeynos guilds who raided nightly T7 content..and were blasting it...on pvp server...=p

Really?

I was in the top guild on the PvP server Nagafen : Havoc.

I know for sure the Qeynos only guilds couldn't raid shit, matter of fact when I left they only cleared labs.....

The FP guilds could do a whole lot better, hell our only rivals were the FP guilds.

[Khristah]

I was leader of Body Count on Venekor

[Faelor]

sony coming is rushed it..and ultimatly destroyed it
It was suppose to be released July 2006, which is earlier than January 2007 ;)

[Khristah]

no it wasnt..they just told you that to keep you interested...i think brad would have been JUST as happy to let microsoft keep paying his cell phone bill and house payment while he fucked off for the rest of his life...

but thats just me...lol

Microsoft caught onto his game ..told him to release or go get fucked..he said /cry but its not reaaaadyyyy....they said go fuck yourself..he crawled back to sony like the whining snivelling little bitch that he is and said please mama sony..i need to suckle off your teat once more...look..i hgave you eq..and eq2...i need you mamasony please please..ill make something wonderful for you..just a little more money...pleeeeease...and sony took it...and he continued to fuck off...lol

[Tronco]

So yeah Onii....graphics are cool.

[Ferrum]

In 99' EQ was one of the best looking games to come out. If you can think of another game that was released the same year that looked better please post a screen shot. I remember in 99 when I logged into EQ for the beta test I was personally blown away by the graphics, but if a MMO launched today with EQ quality graphics I would not buy it.

The main problem with today's MMO market is releasing an unfinished product. The excuse of "an MMO by nature is never complete" is a load of shit. If your game is well planned out there should be no need for sweeping class changes.

You know this rant could go on for days, but I am going to stop myself here.

Back to the original point of the post....

Vanguard was all graphics and no game play....it failed

EQ has a lot of gameplay, but dated graphics.....it has a good following, but primarily because of it long history. I seriously doubt many brand new, never played an mmo before, people are subscribing to EQ.

SWG and EQ2 had a good balance of graphics and gameplay, but changed the entire game play about a year after launch.

It would be interesting to discuss what people define as good gameplay. I am sure most of HA would say lots of endgame raid encounters.

Me personally, I could care less about the 1-69 (or what levels exist before max). Its all about the big challenges. For me the only real point of levels 1-69 is to learn my way around the world, so I don't get lost moving from raid target to raid target :D



Normally I'd agree with you that max level content is all that matters, but VG had excellant dungeons and quest lines for 1-49. The problem is most people ignored them and grinded on exp mobs. That wasn't a failure of VG, it was a failure of the players. I was lucky enough to be in a group that progressed the "epic" quest lines and still were one of the first groups to max level on the server(would have been second if not for double exp weekends).

To sum it up, i don't care what number is next to my name, I just wan't challenging game play.

Game play to me is challenge.

[Fraktal]

no it wasnt..they just told you that to keep you interested...i think brad would have been JUST as happy to let microsoft keep paying his cell phone bill and house payment while he fucked off for the rest of his life...

but thats just me...lol

Microsoft caught onto his game ..told him to release or go get fucked..he said /cry but its not reaaaadyyyy....they said go fuck yourself..he crawled back to sony like the whining snivelling little bitch that he is and said please mama sony..i need to suckle off your teat once more...look..i hgave you eq..and eq2...i need you mamasony please please..ill make something wonderful for you..just a little more money...pleeeeease...and sony took it...and he continued to fuck off...lol

That is pretty much it.

What a fucktard, the shit I read from ex employees was just too fucked up.

How did he not show up when SGO was dissolved? So he lost all his employees, only a few got hired by Sony, and not even a "goodbye, goodluck" ?

Fuck him.

[Ferrum]

well the WoW killer...probably wont ever happen...the game is too good, the graphics are good if you look at them right, the gameplay is outstanding, the engine is the best engine ever, the fights are fun, the quests are good, its packed full of humor, and i dig that...i mean what more could you ask for? Blizzard to me, is not one to release crap, when WoW came out, it wasnt broken...wow what a surprise! ..eq2 was and still is broken...eq is still broken...vanguard is broken...and wait...ALL of those are SONY games...

it seems as if its not about the game, engine, graphics etc at all...its the producers, the publishers and the devs...i for one am NEVER buying sony anything...ever...

and so as weve all heard...the grass is always greener...but is it really?

WoW is an ok game, but...heh

[Torvintus]

eq is still broken...the last time i logged in fell through the world...hmm 50 years or whatever lol and you still cant fix that shit? the character animations and faces are just hideous...the interface and spells ...nvm i dont wanna get started lol

This statement really confuses me.

[Abigor]

EQ1 is one step above Ultima Online though.

[Faelor]

Good ole derails :(

[Distratus]

I voted everything is worth a shot. but to get me to play that game would have to be word of mouth. and i mean a whole lotta mouth. I need my eye candy!

[Fraktal]

I voted everything is worth a shot. but to get me to play that game would have to be word of mouth. and i mean a whole lotta mouth. I need my eye candy!

Hell yea!

Whats the point of having a superb combat system if it looks like ass?

[Khristah]

well, some might agree that the best combat system...doesnt look like anything at all...

Pen and Paper D&D....that is all i have to say =p

[Tronco]

well, some might agree that the best combat system...doesnt look like anything at all...

Pen and Paper D&D....that is all i have to say =p


/agree. I play D&D every weekend and there's nothing you can't do, love it.

[Skar]

A game needs a balance to accel. I wouldn't mind a minor dip in graphics for good solid gameplay (look at WoW.) I'm not a WoW fanboy but they have a solid game. VG would have rocked had they have kept their promises. The game was released in Alpha and ultimately crumbled to nothing. WoW imho is far too easy the only difficult part is finding 25 people who know how to press up down left right and 3 hotkeys.

AoC looks great, the PVP system looks like it'll keep the game interesting but you won't find out until you rock it. ;)